[Discussion] PK vs CK and rules around this

[Sterrenstof]

Money is used in character to buy vehicles, properties, etc. for your character and it is not out of character. We're talking about character kills and they should be emphasized with the value they come with. You shouldn't start back off with everything given to you on a silver platter, there is no character development other than you saying; "I inherited all this from my mom when she passed away" and instantly have a house, vehicle, property, etc. By freezing assets, anything on that character whether it be properties, vehicles, money, etc. will be frozen and that character will be disabled, you would need to create another new character.

Bradley has a good point, CK's shouldn't let you keep your values, it should make you start over. Money is an in-character value, not an out-of-character value.
And you simply namechanging, keeping your 200.000.000, and your 20 expensive cars is quite odd, and roleplaying it as a inheritance from a passed family member is just poor development. So I really agree with Bradley's suggestion, I think CK's shouldn't just be a namechange.

This will also make people think twice about their actions, instead of thinking, "Haha! I can namechange anyway! And keep my stuff! There's nothing to lose other than character development!"

Same with namechanging to avoid prison, that should be an automatic CK, and you starting over.

 

[Topaz]

I'd like to see CKs happen more frequently too tbh. I'm all for players losing assets and overall networth as it'll keep a stable economy. If you picture it, roleplay economy and irl economy are two different things. IRL economy tends to fluctuate as role play only goes up, with slight drops due to player inactivity. Having ways to get wealth out of the economy is always great and prevents players from having $20 million in a bank account down the road. I understand that players get attached to their characters, but it's sometimes a good thing to start new and constantly entertain yourself with new roleplay.

 

[Hound]

As I've already stated in the staff chat. I do not think wiping all assets is a good thing. Now I'm going to use an example I used in the staff chat earlier and I know we're not an RPG but stay with me here.

Ask yourself this. Do you really think players will want to potentially lose everything? Look at it like this you play an MMORPG for thousands of hours but decide to make a new character it overwrites the old character and you lose all progress. In doing so said player loses all motivation as they now have nothing to aid them. Money is generally used to give players very basic stuff to aid in roleplay. It can be demotivating losing everything you've worked for. It would be bad enough losing a house but losing everything would ruin the incentive to roleplay again.

It is very easy to lose motivation when you finally end a character forever. It can take a long time to get back into the mood to start from the ground up. Now take that and triple the effort to get the motivation back as you now have absolutely nothing to your name. No money, no house, no cars. I understand the reasoning behind this but think it just sounds good in paper and would not be a good thing to introduce into the server.

Players need an incentive to continue role-playing here and removing that incentive through the means of wiping assets will not only affect the playerbase it will scar the playerbase and potentially scare players off of the server. We need to be realistic with systems that we add onto the server to make sure they will not do more harm than good. if you would be up for it thats fine but you have to look at the majority of players not just the few that would be okay with it. I know if I had personally put thousands of hours into a character only for it to be CKed and be left with nothing when I namechanged I would not feel very good about it and it could potentially make me say "fuck this". I'm sure I'm not the only one and I understand we all have different opinions about this.

 

[Xgin]

I was always a fan of when you get ck'd, you lose everything along with a % of your money, sort of like a boosted fresh character with extra income to restart. Losing everything is a bit harsh but again, you need to realize that you need to take your character's life in consideration. Of course, this is a video game but you need to roleplay emotion. Not everyone who gets in a cop chase will stop when their car gets wrecked and open fire on cops just to respawn and do the same vicious cycle. Suicide by cop is barely a thing anymore but take the time to consider will your character actually do that, or just give up for the sake of living? I will advocate those who try to suicide by cop to avoid prison should be cked but that's my personal opinion on how it should be.

Take precaution, take a breather and think what your character will do in that situation where you may get ck'd and avoid starting over. Your character has a life and life is precious. If it just so happens that your character dies, you lose all your physical assets as houses do get auctioned off and so do your vehicles when the government repossesses them. Your money will be reduced by a set % on how much you really have and simply start over on a fresh, new name with new physical assets.

 

[WirelessMind]

As I've already stated in the staff chat. I do not think wiping all assets is a good thing. Now I'm going to use an example I used in the staff chat earlier and I know we're not an RPG but stay with me here.

Ask yourself this. Do you really think players will want to potentially lose everything? Look at it like this you play an MMORPG for thousands of hours but decide to make a new character it overwrites the old character and you lose all progress. In doing so said player loses all motivation as they now have nothing to aid them. Money is generally used to give players very basic stuff to aid in roleplay. It can be demotivating losing everything you've worked for. It would be bad enough losing a house but losing everything would ruin the incentive to roleplay again.

It is very easy to lose motivation when you finally end a character forever. It can take a long time to get back into the mood to start from the ground up. Now take that and triple the effort to get the motivation back as you now have absolutely nothing to your name. No money, no house, no cars. I understand the reasoning behind this but think it just sounds good in paper and would not be a good thing to introduce into the server.

Players need an incentive to continue role-playing here and removing that incentive through the means of wiping assets will not only affect the playerbase it will scar the playerbase and potentially scare players off of the server. We need to be realistic with systems that we add onto the server to make sure they will not do more harm than good. if you would be up for it thats fine but you have to look at the majority of players not just the few that would be okay with it. I know if I had personally put thousands of hours into a character only for it to be CKed and be left with nothing when I namechanged I would not feel very good about it and it could potentially make me say "fuck this". I'm sure I'm not the only one and I understand we all have different opinions about this.

This says it perfectly, and let’s be honest the assets you had before cking are used to create your new characters life.

Your character most of the time doesn’t usually carry out as if he was just coming out the womb, he most likely had a structured life and that’s where you’re picking up from. You aren’t rping a homeless guy probably more then 90% of the time.

You’re able to rp a hood nigga even with all those assets on your account, you just simply don’t use the assets unrealistically. It’s simply rp standards at the end of the day.

 

[Snick]

As I've already stated in the staff chat. I do not think wiping all assets is a good thing. Now I'm going to use an example I used in the staff chat earlier and I know we're not an RPG but stay with me here.

Ask yourself this. Do you really think players will want to potentially lose everything? Look at it like this you play an MMORPG for thousands of hours but decide to make a new character it overwrites the old character and you lose all progress. In doing so said player loses all motivation as they now have nothing to aid them. Money is generally used to give players very basic stuff to aid in roleplay. It can be demotivating losing everything you've worked for. It would be bad enough losing a house but losing everything would ruin the incentive to roleplay again.

It is very easy to lose motivation when you finally end a character forever. It can take a long time to get back into the mood to start from the ground up. Now take that and triple the effort to get the motivation back as you now have absolutely nothing to your name. No money, no house, no cars. I understand the reasoning behind this but think it just sounds good in paper and would not be a good thing to introduce into the server.

Players need an incentive to continue role-playing here and removing that incentive through the means of wiping assets will not only affect the playerbase it will scar the playerbase and potentially scare players off of the server. We need to be realistic with systems that we add onto the server to make sure they will not do more harm than good. if you would be up for it thats fine but you have to look at the majority of players not just the few that would be okay with it. I know if I had personally put thousands of hours into a character only for it to be CKed and be left with nothing when I namechanged I would not feel very good about it and it could potentially make me say "fuck this". I'm sure I'm not the only one and I understand we all have different opinions about this.

I was always a fan of when you get ck'd, you lose everything along with a % of your money, sort of like a boosted fresh character with extra income to restart. Losing everything is a bit harsh but again, you need to realize that you need to take your character's life in consideration. Of course, this is a video game but you need to roleplay emotion. Not everyone who gets in a cop chase will stop when their car gets wrecked and open fire on cops just to respawn and do the same vicious cycle. Suicide by cop is barely a thing anymore but take the time to consider will your character actually do that, or just give up for the sake of living? I will advocate those who try to suicide by cop to avoid prison should be cked but that's my personal opinion on how it should be.

Take precaution, take a breather and think what your character will do in that situation where you may get ck'd and avoid starting over. Your character has a life and life is precious. If it just so happens that your character dies, you lose all your physical assets as houses do get auctioned off and so do your vehicles when the government repossesses them. Your money will be reduced by a set % on how much you really have and simply start over on a fresh, new name with new physical assets.

You both are pretty much right, but I think the best way to figure out the right answer would be basically through experiment, we might lose a player here and there in order to find the right answer but that'd have to be a part of the process, if there's a way to have a switch on/off for CK's wipe data that'd be awesome, so at a later stage you can simply put the switch off if it wouldn't work out.

 

[Psychedelic]

I was always a fan of when you get ck'd, you lose everything along with a % of your money, sort of like a boosted fresh character with extra income to restart. Losing everything is a bit harsh but again, you need to realize that you need to take your character's life in consideration.

I don’t mind this, it makes a lot of sense. Kind of a best-of-both-worlds scenario.

I can see how it would be super demotivating to lose absolutely everything, but that’s the nature of a CK. I feel like cars and houses/businesses need to go when you CK, it just makes sense that your new character wouldn’t own them anymore. But on the other hand, I can also see that a bit of a cash boost to help you along with starting your new character can help.

 

[nanpou.]

I don’t mind this, it makes a lot of sense. Kind of a best-of-both-worlds scenario.

I can see how it would be super demotivating to lose absolutely everything, but that’s the nature of a CK. I feel like cars and houses/businesses need to go when you CK, it just makes sense that your new character wouldn’t own them anymore. But on the other hand, I can also see that a bit of a cash boost to help you along with starting your new character can help.

People should be able to keep atleast 75% of their cash, house and a car tbh

 

[Xgin]

Properties and vehicles get repossessed when someone dies. 75% of the cash only is what we were thinking about.

 

[Psychedelic]

Properties and vehicles get repossessed when someone dies. 75% of the cash only is what we were thinking about.

The only negative thing I can think of with this is a blanket overall figure of 75% would suck if somebody only had 10k in cash to begin with.

What do you think about brackets with increased percentages the more cash you have?

For example:
$0 - $20k = 0%
$20k - $50k = 10%
$50k to $100k = 20%
$100k to $500k = 40%
$500k to $2m = 60%
$2m + = 75%

Or something like that?

Or am I over thinking this?

 

[Xgin]

The only negative thing I can think of with this is a blanket overall figure of 75% would suck if somebody only had 10k in cash to begin with.

What do you think about brackets with increased percentages the more cash you have?

For example:
$0 - $20k = 0%
$20k - $50k = 10%
$50k to $100k = 20%
$100k to $500k = 40%
$500k to $2m = 60%
$2m + = 75%

Or something like that?

Or am I over thinking this?

That was probably what we were aiming for to be honest. It's still in the works but that is the general idea.

 

[WirelessMind]

-1 for the same reason I said before it’s pointless and it’ll just ruin people’s motivation. And once again it’s pointless.

 

[Hatredismylife]

-1 for the same reason I said before it’s pointless and it’ll just ruin people’s motivation. And once again it’s pointless.

Just don't get CKed, outsmart the person that is trying to CK you. I'm a fan of the whole idea that if you get CKed, you lose your shit. You should be afraid of your losing your items, you should be afraid of losing everything you've 'grinded' for. That's when you start to think and attempt to well, evade that CK. And honestly, I think that there should be some sort of an option that states that once a person gets your CK perms, you have the right to CK them back if you're able to, so for an example, you've fucked up, your faction leader is after you, a shootout happens however you somehow manage to kill your faction leader, he gets CKed, and end of the conflict (unless there are more people that have the right to CK you, that's when that aspect of the cat and the mouse comes in when you've to be really lowkey about everything you do).

HOWEVER, it'll disappoint a lot of people and it'll pretty much demotivate the player base, that's a no from me.

 

[nanpou.]

This is literally going to kill the server, and when I say that; I mean it. I'm not mentioning names, but I've spoken to nearly 30 people who've personally told me they'll refuse to come here if this happens, including their factions will close; not mentioning faction names either. And honestly, you can think I'm bullshitting but I'm not. This seems like a good idea in theory but practically in logical sense, we're still playing GTA and not Arma, DayZ, Escape From Tarkov, or any of those survival RPG games at the end of the day. It's pretty obvious, and explained by countless people on the thread here themselves, that this is really not the best way for anyone to go. People should simply remember we're playing on a roleplay server, yes. But we're also playing a game that people come home to play for fun, not to roleplay what they just experienced in real life.

You might argue; "That's what an RP server is". No, it isn't. Even staff members have said they don't want the server becoming a splitting image of Live My Real Life v2 (AKA REAL LIFE NOT A GAME); publicly. I think youse better start thinking logically before suggesting something because you need to remember, what you think is good; might not be good for the entire server's future and benefit with the players who come here to play it.

 

[Hound]

I have briefly touched upon this in the staff team but I can see this going one of two ways. Either entire rage will ensue following a CK or people will do all kinds of things to avoid that situation. After the CK has taken place the playerbase will leave. Its all well and good thinking this is a good idea but its not. It sounds good in paper but in practicality it just means that we are shooting ourselves in the foot. If you honestly think players will stay on the server after being cked or even risk playing here to begin with to lose the majority or all of their assets then you are not looking at this with any logic. There is no way people are just going to happily start from zero. We all know the savings features/boosted pay ruined other servers but what people are failing to see is this is not the answer. If you want the server to fail before it launches then feel free to have this feature added to the server. I have spoken to many faction leaders/illegal roleplayers where CKs happen more frequently and they have told me they are completely opposed to this. If you want us to risk everything we have worked towards so far then thats up to you. However I will never agree to this system and I know a lot of illegal role-players feel the same as me. People argue that CKs should hold weight however why should making CKs have such a risk to the player be the cause for reason? People should role-play appropriately anyway. The rules will enforce this. I don't like seeing the bullshit reasoning that CKs should hold more weight to be used in an answer to this. Because it is not logical. I have been role-playing for around ten years and know for a fact if you implement this there will be zero player base.

 

[WirelessMind]

I have briefly touched upon this in the staff team but I can see this going one of two ways. Either entire rage will ensue following a CK or people will do all kinds of things to avoid that situation. After the CK has taken place the playerbase will leave. Its all well and good thinking this is a good idea but its not. It sounds good in paper but in practicality it just means that we are shooting ourselves in the foot. If you honestly think players will stay on the server after being cked or even risk playing here to begin with to lose the majority or all of their assets then you are not looking at this with any logic. There is no way people are just going to happily start from zero. We all know the savings features/boosted pay ruined other servers but what people are failing to see is this is not the answer. If you want the server to fail before it launches then feel free to have this feature added to the server. I have spoken to many faction leaders/illegal roleplayers where CKs happen more frequently and they have told me they are completely opposed to this. If you want us to risk everything we have worked towards so far then thats up to you. However I will never agree to this system and I know a lot of illegal role-players feel the same as me. People argue that CKs should hold weight however why should making CKs have such a risk to the player be the cause for reason? People should role-play appropriately anyway. The rules will enforce this. I don't like seeing the bullshit reasoning that CKs should hold more weight to be used in an answer to this. Because it is not logical. I have been role-playing for around ten years and know for a fact if you implement this there will be zero player base.

-mic drop-

 

[Peezy]

If you implement this it'll scare off so many people from the server. People already put the fun they have with that specific character at risk when they hand over their CK perms. We all know being CK'd can, in some way, demotivate someone. The last thing someone needs when starting a new character is worrying about all the assets they grinned for being wiped. Also, there really wouldn't be a point of name changing if this was implemented, right? People are just going to end up quitting the server when they get CKd.

Keeping assets after being CK'd has never been a problem on other servers, in my eyes. Why should it be a problem here?

 

[Bradley]

The point of this thread is to discuss and get everyone's opinion on this. There isn't anywhere stating that we're implementing this discussion, even so if we were implementing something like this it would have to be a huge approval rating from the community. Please don't jump to the conclusion we're implementing something when it's just a simple discussion about character kills and player kills. Anyways, this will be locked and archived, thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion and given feedback. There won't be any changes to character kills.